Friday, January 2, 2009

More on tolerance.

Ok so I was re-reading my "in defense of the h8" blog and I realized that it wasn't super concise. More than anything it was me "verbally" vomiting my thoughts but it didn't convey the actual message that I wanted to get across. I found a fellow blogger out there in the blogosphere that has discussed the prop8 situation and while I maintain that he kept an excellent level of neutrality though as I was reading through the lines I understood him to be in support of prop8. This was slightly surprising to me considering that the entire premise of his blog was how to be both gay and Mormon or as he has dubbed it a "MoHo". I try really hard to view any issue, no matter how mundane, from as many different viewpoints as possible. I enjoy having a civil discussion with people on as many sides of whatever fence is being discussed. I find that it helps me to make the most informed and logical decision I am capable of. Ultimately the message that I started out to convey was one of tolerance and understanding. Instead I just got frustrated and puked up some of my anger towards the situation so let me try this again. If you are sick of this topic then just stop reading but until I am satisfied I will continue to discuss it.

Hate Speech:
      Both sides are guilty of this behavior. While it is true the religious have had more than a few nasty, vile and repulsive comments to make about gay folk, the gay community has also been guilty of such intolerable behaviors. Piss and vinegar does nothing but fuel the flames of intolerance. Shouting derogatory comments, posting them on your blog, even thinking them does not increase your ability to be tolerant nor does it sway more converts to your personal beliefs. It does however alienate and send the wrong message to the fence sitters and neutral parties. So enough with the hate speech. Quit accusing the other side of drinking the haterade as well. We are both guilty of it so lets knock it off and move on to more pressing issues. 

Assumptions and stereotypes:
   Mormon's don't practice polygamy any more than gays are child molesters. While in both cases there have been instances of both events, usually by someone who isn't stable to begin with, this is however NOT the norm for either party. So lets stop with the false accusations and finger pointing. We all have the occasional embarrassment in our respective groups that we would all just assume forget about so enough already. The Christian right have more than their fair share of zealots who really have sullied their reputation but lets face it guy so do the gays. Unless we have been a part of, or still hold a membership card to the group we are criticizing we have no right to assume what we have been told about said group is true. 

Stereotypes make about as much sense as one-size fits all pants. While yes the basic structure is grounded in truth. the blanket statements about any group of people is absurd and irrelevant. There are exceptions to every rule and there are even exceptions to the exceptions. Stereotypes keep us from really getting to know an individual because we will have preconceived  ideas based on who this person is without having made the effort to discover the validity of these claims. It really is a lazy and ineffective way to classify people. 

In addition, making a statement based on a stereotype clearly illustrates ones own ignorance on the subject. Anyone who has taken the time to look past a stereotype and learn the true nature of the subject will be painfully aware that you do not have a full understanding of the topic at hand.  

Standing firm in your beliefs:
OK people we are up against a rock and a hard place here. The religious right believes that
the are perfectly within their right to vote laws into effect based on their moral principles.
The gay folk believe that they are entitled to the same rights and privileges as anyone else.
These are the core beliefs on both sides of the fence and they are held to with ferocity. The issue
however is that neither side is willing to listen to and understand what the other is saying. Nor is either side willing to compromise, and why should they have to? They believe they are right.

Christians and other religious people believe that they have a full and complete understanding 
of right and wrong based on the brand of religion they choose to believe. The kicker is that they
also believe that if you do not subscribe to their belief system then you are clearly in the wrong
and should not be granted your opinion.

The GLBT/TS community believe that as active members of society, tax payers, fellow human
beings, they are entitled to the same benefits as anyone else. It makes perfect sense that a group
of individuals who play just as active a roll as everyone else in their community be allowed to 
have equal membership in the club.

The only thing we are left with is a power struggle. It is so very important to remember
that not everyone believes the same things. It is wrong and absurd to think for even one
moment that your views on the world are the same as your neighbors and therefore just as
absurd to expect someone with an opposing viewpoint to just accept your views and keep theirs
to themselves.

Don't yuck my yumm just say wow. This to me is the perfect example of how we should
live. Instead of seeing something different from YOUR norm and immediately rejecting it,
just consider it, try to understand it and if it still isn't your thing then just accept that it is
someone's. I personally don't enjoy fish, others however LOVE it. I don't tell them they are
wrong, disgusting or perverted for liking it, it just isn't my flavor. We would all do well to
remember this little saying when faced with something new.

Ultimately what I am trying to say is lets ease up on one another and start learning from one
another. We all could learn so much from one another that may even help us to see beyond
our selfish selves. So in closing Gays, lets try to understand where the religious folks are 
coming from and Christians,we should do the same. We have both been kinda mean to one 
another and it isn't accomplishing anything more than hurt feelings and verbal attacks on ones

Christians will do well to remember that the gays are not gonna take it lying down so I hope
you have prepared for a fight. Things are going to get very ugly for you but in my opinion you 
kinda jumped into this fire without considering how hot it could get.

Gays this battle is going to get ugly for you too! While I personally believe that everyone in this
country should have equal rights it isn't going to happen overnight. It can take time for people
to get used to change.

Regardless of where you stand on this issue before you take a side really consider not just your moral stance but also your reasoning behind it. If you don't want gays to marry you need to be able to justify it far beyond "cause the bible/church/prophet/pastor etc" says it is wrong. To deny a people a civil right is to say that it is harmful and dangerous and if that is the case then should anyone really be allowed to have such a right?


  1. I believe that the LGBT community deserves all the same civil liberties and rights as any other citizen. However, private organizations (such as religious ones) should be able to have the right to control their policy concerning membership, marriage, etc. If a church only wants to admit white members, or if it only wants to admit women, they should be able to. This country was founded on religious freedom and the only way to have that is with the complete seperation of church and state. I wonder if some of the fear surrounding prop 8 is that members and leaders of these organizations are worried that they will lose this right if that "first step" in legalizing gay marriage will open flood gates that will result in the taking away of thier rights. Sometimes this kind of legislation becomes a zero-sum game. Personally, I am afraid of the ultra-left wing ideaology and I DO think that it ultimately results in a loss of rights. Civil rights should not be about granting rights to a group by taking rights away from others. This goes for both sides of the prop 8 argument. What do you think?

  2. i hope i didn't make your mad. i was just re-reading this and it comes across not in a way that i meant it. i was just throwing out a different view point to bounce off each other. I didn't mean to offend.

  3. No worries, I am not offended in ANY way I just didn't see the comment until today.

    I totally get what you are saying however laws were already in place in California to prevent just that. That is one of the injustices of Prop8 and one of the reasons that there is a major uproar regarding false representation of the proposition. The California Supreme Court made it VERY clear that churches and other organizations were not to be penalized nor forced to change their charters with the addition of gay marriage into California Law.

    If groups want to keep a specific "demographic" I truly believe they have that right. However should private institutions be granted the right to operate in a segregative manner while being granted additional benefits from the government such as tax breaks and or exemption. How do you think the public would react if a group of Muslims managed to get a law on the books forbidding women to expose their heads/hair in public? (I use Muslims simply cause they are not part of the Christian faith and therefore would have an opposing opinion.) I think there would be an UPROAR amongst the female and feminist communities. There would be a cry of injustice, forced morality, a denying of human rights and the civil liberty to live freely and according to ones own beliefs. Mosques would be targeted as the center of the injustice and there would be a public cry to overturn the law and even demands to remove the benefits and exemptions permitted by the government.

    Not allowing people into your club that don't have your same beliefs is fine but demanding that the moral standards of your group be met by everyone in a state or even the nation is extending and forcing your morals onto people who are not a part of nor do they desire to be a member of your group.